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2008-11-09 04:49:21

Creative Writing

When you cry over your true love for years to come, remember it will always be an obsession.
And remember, Beethoven was completely deaf.

Heartbreak is a winter love ballad
made of quixotic memories
Something irreplaceable
that no one else can capture.

Time ticks by, every moment dies behind us.
Once the seasons pass again...
The blissful fantasy, you created in me still dances

I tremble, and lose all stream of thought
my jaw is powerless, my insides split, and my heart weighs more than usual..
when I hear or speak your name.

Knowing you has made me sick with love
I don't touch you, and I can't feel you
as I wait for this love to die.



2008-11-09 17:56:43

Love poetry, eh? Get over it.
REPLIES: Lilian, alishahnovin, Keshiaaa



2008-11-09 21:21:11

I actually really liked this piece.



2008-11-09 21:21:26

Replying to Hogan:
...that was a bit harsh.



2008-11-10 13:50:55

Replying to Hogan:
From The Unbinding by Walter Kirn:

You did tell me ... that you were still very much involved with your ex. ... I remember that I told you that I would not see you again, that this hurt me, and I remember you told me not to be hurt. Remember that I then posed a multiple-choice question? I believe I said, "Kent Selkirk: A woman comes to see you in your apartment and she says she is freezing. You a) get her a warm sweater from your closet, b) turn up the thermostat, c) build a toasty fire in the fireplace, or d) tell her to not be cold."



2008-11-10 21:44:24

A bit harsh? I suppose. I'm just a little sick of love poems, and this is supposed to be a site where writers can converse - critically as well as back-pattingly - about the writing that goes up here. I speak for myself only, of course, and I don't mind being the resident jerk, nor do I mind all the negative feedback that that entails.

Maybe I just think that there are better things to complain about than one's own private feelings. After all, they are private. Not that this site is necessarily or exclusively meant for material that is pure for and about the public. That said, if someone is going to post a diary entry of a poem, then they should expect something less than unanimously positive comments. Like I said, I'll be the jerk.

I am, obviously, not the most sentimental or romantic person, but maybe this is because I've not felt the sting of love-unrequited. Or maybe I just think that people should get over themselves (and their ex-lovers) and keep their personal feelings where they belong, that is, in their diaries or conversations with close friends.

Anyway, people can post what they like - love poem or hate literature - and anyone can comment what they want. And anyone can comment on the comments. Free speech at work! So, Keshiaaa, please don't feel too bad about my comment. And keep on posting. I'm the only jerk around here, it looks like.



2008-11-10 23:44:29

Replying to Hogan:
Ok, if you're attacking love poetry on the whole then your bound to lose because there's just way too much great (and as you mentioned bad) love poetry to even try attacking it. In fact, love poetry has evolved poetry on the whole. Like the idea of the sonnet, was based strongly on love. Shakespeare, Tennyson, and many of the greats have all tried their hand at love poetry.

Second of all, to criticize a poem by saying "get over it," yeah it may make you sound like the resident jerk but the problem is that you never actually attack the poem itself and only poet: That leaves you as only the jerk and not a 'critic and a jerk' that you seem to aim for.

Thirdly, I'm not saying you don't have a right to free speech..but you're not even labeling the poem correctly. If anything this poem is anti-love in a way. Look at the opening line "remember it will always be an obsession." and the concluding line "as I wait for this love to die."

..The poem is clearly about getting over obsessive love. So for you to say "love poem? Get over it" is not only redundant but makes me question if you even read the poem or just skimmed it and then prejudiced it when you saw the word "love."



2008-11-11 04:21:32

Replying to Hogan:
Honestly-- it's okay.
I was a bit offended but I'm over sensitive.
I wrote this nearly 2 years ago, when I fell in love with a Jewish boy.
I found it while looking back on my old stuff- and I realized how I captured exactly how it felt at the time.
Really-- it's not a love poem, it's something describing how it feels to ache over someone.
Bah. In a sense.
That's okay, I looked at your profile before, was surprised at who it was.
Thank you, though. All of you.



2008-11-11 12:30:48

Welcome to the site Keshiaaa.
REPLIES: Keshiaaa



2008-11-11 15:04:07

Replying to Lilian:
I did, of course, read the poem. And you are right that I didn't give very "constructive" criticism. My point wasn't to give any sort close reading of the poem; it was more of a broad statement about private feelings in public discourse, which I see little purpose in, except in much more horrific circumstances than one's ex(Jewish)boyfriend. I am glad, though, that I could generate some spirited, if not very interesting comments (including my own).

Love poem, anti-love poem: it doesn't make a difference. I suppose I was going after the "self-expression" aspect of it, which is what prompted me to post my "Against Self-Expression" article.

I don't mind being the jerk, it gets people talking. But I'll try and be more of a "critic" from now on, too.
REPLIES: Keshiaaa



2008-11-11 20:43:32

Replying to Alamir:
Thank you!! :D



2008-11-11 20:55:25

Replying to Hogan:
Look, you.

The reason I display private feelings in a public "setting" is because no one here knows me.
And if one does, then they already know how I've been affected in the past, and they will secretly get a look inside my heart.

You, sir, have a lot to say. You put a lot into silly things like this it seems, and that's a good thing.
It's okay to be "the jerk", which you're not, you're stating how you see things.
You have no idea of me or what I am like, so you've got the right to criticize... or openly state your dislike toward this kind of thing.

To be honest, sometimes I think people have more of a right to criticize those they know, BUT everything in life goes either way.

Self expression, my friend, is what you're doing right now. It's what I'm doing. Self expression can *never* be hindered, or torn down, but that in itself is self expression.

ps. he wasn't a boyfriend, we were lovers.
The getting over obsessive love comment was exactly what it is.
The prejudice of love--- makes me hope everyone gets a chance one day to melt at the sight of the word
and have one, or many people come to mind.



2008-11-12 15:26:21

Replying to Keshiaaa:
"Look, you": I like that. Glad you're willing to "express" back. I have to say, though, that I was fully aware of the minor irony of my "expressing" myself in response to your "expressing" yourself. In that sense nobody ever does anything except "express themselves". The difference, I think (I feel, I figure, whatever), is not in the form (which is always "self-expression") but the content . If someone is going to express themselves then they should have something to say about the world around them, not just the world inside them (i.e.: their private emotions). My article about self-expression is clear enough on that.

One of the major assumptions about art in general, whether it's writing, painting or music, is that it's all about the artists subjective feelings, and although art has to come from an individuals mind the art doesn't have to be about the artist. Taken too far, this assumption turns into the justification to turn any emotion into a piece of art. Feelings are fine. We all have them. But not everybody has (or think they have) something to say about the world around them. God forbid they should take a look around, formulate an interesting thought, and ignore for a second the inner-chatter of their selfish emotions.

Anyway, I'd like to know what you think of the "Against Self-Expression" piece, and I'd like to continue this "debate", if we can call it that, which I don't think we should. Continue this "discussion". Yes, that's better. A heated, fruitful discussion.
REPLIES: Keshiaaa



2008-11-12 22:36:27

Replying to Hogan:
Agreeing to disagree is silly, so I'm not even going to propose that.
I loved this: "In other words, a piece of art is like a baby, and you want a baby to walk and talk on its own, to be its own person, free from domineering parents giving constant guidance. You want the art/baby to grow up, be independent, and interact with others without having its hand held or its creator explaining for them."

To be entirely honest, you're "Against Self-Expression" piece is good. Going as far as great; yet, we differ in our opinions greatly. That's okay, though. That is why I'm enjoying this discussion.
A lot of what you see and point out is very accurate, and it's artistic to view it in another light, I admire that.
I still stand by the idea of emotion. Emotion can be everything, and it can be nothing.
Most of the time I wish it was nothing. It's a burden on many things.
It's also inspiration. I'm beginning to think off the map here.

To be honest, I've read your piece a few times over, and each time I do it makes more sense.
I'm going to remain stubborn, or this will be over, if, of course, you are daft. Which I don't think you are.

See for me, I really believe that expression, most forms of art, poetry, and so on require emotion.
I can see what you mean by art not being about the artist, it's not. It's really not. When a great artist accomplishes something huge, it's not identifiably personal. Like you said, it will be standing on it's own, the artist will sleep as others make perfect sense of it, because it is so great.
It's just proof that I am not a great artist, I'm in touch with my human side. I'm glad for that.

My mind is all over the place all the time, I think much too quickly, and without getting through one thought, my mind jumps to another, so forgive me when I jump all over the place.
I like to read your words because they are beautiful, and I appreciate them.

Feelings are fine. We all have them. But not everybody has (or think they have) something to say about the world around them. God forbid they should take a look around, formulate an interesting thought, and ignore for a second the inner-chatter of their selfish emotions.

That, too. I love that. I see eye to eye with that, but at the saaaame time... I'm willing to see it from my original point of view. I like seeing art as a way to show people, "Hey, these are my emotions. You have them to. This connects us."
Weakly put, I know, but it's as simple as I could put it.

This is definiately far from where we started. It's becoming more of what I see of art, expression, emotion, etc.

I will bluntly say, you're evidently brighter than I, but of course I am willing to express back.

Funny thing is, I came across this site accidently.
I posted this here, because I wanted to just post things no one would really know about. Just to see.



2008-11-14 00:09:56

Replying to Keshiaaa:
Why not agree to disagree? I like to think that agreeing to disagree - in a peaceful, constuctive and respectful way - is the highest thing people can achieve. It's next to godliness, as far as I'm concerned (and I don't believe in God (or gods)). As William Blake (who certainly did belive in God) wrote, "Opposition is true friendship." And by the way, Blake's God - the Christian one - is often thought of simply as love, which is fine with me: God is love, love is God. That's a lot better than God as metaphysical-reality-in-the-sky-somewhere. I can't do anything with that. So it seems I do have some use for love, even if it isn't for use in writing. But I digress...

I think I'll write a piece titled "My Case for Self-Expression" or "My Defense of Self-Expression", and take the opposite view of my other piece, since if you want to argue one side of something you should be able to give a good, clear, fair and sympathetic case for a view you don't hold. Otherwise you're "one-sided" as they say, and might be making a strawman argument out of you opponent, which, the philosophers tell us, you shouldn't do. If you want to refute a view persuasively you have to refute a strong version of it, not an easily-destroyable "strawman" version or unfair characterization of it. So I'll work on that.

You're very right, though, when you say that showing people your art is like saying, "Hey, these are my emotions. You have them to. This connects us." Taking personal feelings and putting them into art - using words, images or sounds (although as a writer I have a plain bias and affinity for words) - translates those feelings into what are, one assumes, universally experiences, and makes it accessible to almost anybody. Otherwise the translation (or transmission to others) wouldn't be possible, and nobody could identify with how you feel, thinking, "I know how she feels, I've been there, too. But she put it in such a way that I understand my own experience and feelings even better than before."

Gee, I'm getting ahead of myself. I'll probably have to use some of this in the article. Oh well.

By the way, where are you writing from? Just out of curiosity. Canada? The States? Elsewhere? Can't help but wonder for some reason. I know some of the people who write for the site, but not all of them. Of course you don't have to say.

My refutation to my own article is forthcoming (and pretty much started, since I've written some of it above).
REPLIES: Keshiaaa



2008-11-14 00:40:15

Replying to Hogan:
I was excited to have a notification, knew it would be a noble response.
I was glad to see that it was.

Agreeing to disagree is definitely one of the highest things people can achieve, but if we agreed to disagree, perhaps this could become dull. For the heat has been calmed.
Opposition can very well be true friendship, because it opens doors instead of sitting in the same, stale room with one another, nodding along.

God is love to some, love is God to some. To me. Love is God. At this very moment in my life, I am over joyed to be naive, to be in the state of mind that love rules all. I hope I stay this way forever, but surely it will fade.
Love is everything, love is nothing. Have I said this before? Yes, because everything is everything, and everything is nothing.
Twirls me around, really.

What is love to you? I don't mean this in a romantic sense, I mean do you let yourself love?
You love to write, no?
I apologize, I am tired, and I am not thinking entirely straight or on track.
Doesn't really matter what track I'm on, it's about conversing, we're not planning on getting to any points, are we?
I like to hear your views on things. My thoughts right now are short, and simple.

I'd be the kind of girl to have a solid version in my head, and when it pours out, it woudl be a weak, strawman ready to be blown over by the first Hogan that walks by. ;)

I nodded in agreement at my computer screen when I read this,
"I know how she feels, I've been there, too. But she put it in such a way that I understand my own experience and feelings even better than before."

That's exactly, exactly the response I'd hope to hear from someone.
If, of course, it was something I was trying to connect with people through. Or at least expressing some kind of emotion. I have written something on apathy, and I had a very hard time doing so.
I wrote a terrible piece, it was a walk through sears. It was boring, and I tried so hard to create a mood without emotion. I succeeded, of course, but I learned then that writing without emotion can be hard, very hard, to do.
I'm an airhead at times, it makes things fun. I forget what I say a lot of the time, as well.

Sometimes I want people just to see that I'm simply human.

Wow, where am I going with this? I apologize. I'm a strange bird...

Well, when you're done that, inform me. I would fancy reading it.
I'm from Kamloops, BC. Yeah, Canada.



2008-11-18 15:28:39

Replying to Keshiaaa:
Originally from Cantley, Quebec. Been in Vancouver for four years.

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