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THURSDAY, MARCH 11, 2010
You know how when someone tries to explain their crazy dream to you, and it's always extremely boring? I sure do. Unless, that is, I was part of the dream. And even then, it's pretty excruciating to listen to somebody vaguely formulate what happened in their sleep, putting into words what were only strange images and sensations, even to the dreamer. It may be exciting to tell someone your dream, but it's rarely fun to listen.

Same goes with people's conception of God. I'm simply not interested. Unless, like with dreams, I fit in there somewhere. But that's pretty rare. Alas, I'm not often mistaken for somebody's God.

The problem with both dreams and God is that they are essentially too private. And so it should be. Dreams happen to the individual, and in so unique a way that even the dreamer, like all the king's horses and all the king's men, has trouble putting the thing back together again. The description of a dream is thrice-removed from the dream itself: imperfect words explaining the incomplete memory of the half-remembered dream. God, too, is subject to so much personal interpretation that no two people's "God"s are likely to be the same.

When describing dreams we often say things like, "I was at my Grandparents' house, but it wasn't my Grandparents' house, you know?" No, actually, I don't know. How would I be able to make sense out of that. I might as well try to interpret a painting by a monkey or baby.

For these general reasons, I think both dream analysis and a science of religion - or more specifically, of mysticism - are somewhat fruitless ventures. Or, to put it more mildly, the fruit it yields doesn't taste that great; neither is it very nutritious. That said, science - neuroscience especially - does have a lot to say about the chemical basis of profound religious experiences. The famous and brilliant neurologist, Vilayanur Ramachandran, has done some very interesting work on this.
Part 1 of Ramachandran on Religious Experience and Temporal Lobes (that's not Ramachandran in the still frame)

Dream analysis, though, is even more elusive than mystical experience. That's because there isn't a totally universal set of symbols and archetypes that we could reference to decode every dream. Every individual has their own set of symbols, memories and associations that makes sense to them, which in turn make their dream make sense, but only to them. There may be, obviously, some symbols that mean approximately the same thing for everybody, but just as people interpret and use the same words in the same language slightly differently, what happens in dreams is not likely at all to mean the same thing to different people. That's why it's so hard to relate to someone explaining their dream to you.

Now, don't misinterpret me. I'm neither for or against mysticism or religion - or people having dreams. I'm only against a misunderstanding of it. Over the centuries, the most violent opposition to personal religious experience and mystical religion has been organized, orthodox religion. And that's because you can't control or make into orthodoxy the kind of religious experience that mystics have.

Public religion - centralized, politicized religion - is always potentially totalitarian. And the first task of totalitarianism is to destroy any possibility of individualized experience. The control of words, ideas, historical interpretation, morality, etc., is a totalitarian's business. Mysticism is the most individualized form of religion - and therefore the most difficult to control - and that's why totalitarian religion tries to stomp it out wherever it is, like everything else individual.

Totalitarian religion tries to push an "objective", "authoritative" conception of God on its followers. The "subjective" God of mysticism, by definition, cannot be pushed on others. Only the effort, the introspection, the individual searching can be encouraged.

Your own private, mystical God may not be fully communicable to other people, but it isn't supposed to be. The kind of inward searching that a mystic does is a deeply personal thing. A mystic doesn't just cling to some externally defined God, given to them by the local preacher or a televangelist. They define God for themselves. They take the active initiative. The passive believer is the one that accepts just what the Bible, or some other religious text, tells them. For this reason, the mystic shouldn't bother other people with their version of God.

Not incidentally, Martin Luther King Jr. had a dream. Quite a famous one. He was also a devout theist. But his "dream" wasn't an idiosyncratic subconscious sleep-experience, it was a progressive social vision, just as his God wasn't something he was pushing on anybody else. King's dream, and God, led him to social activism, showing that a healthy separation of the inward and personal from the public and political is a fine but important line to keep in mind. King may have been a preacher, but he wasn't preachy. Not about forcing any conception of God on anyone.

Whether God "exists" or not isn't the question. The main issue is that I'm bored by people's description of God. Some believe in a pantheistic God, like that of Einstein and Spinoza, where God is basically synonymous with the universe and identified with its intricate (and some say beautiful and awe inspiring) physical laws. Others contend, vaguely, that "there must be something out there", without going into detail about what "something" and "out there" mean. So, again, how am I to make sense of that. Quite simply, I can't. Just like with other people's dreams.

So, to you annoying dream-explicators out there, take a tip from the mystics and keep it to yourself. Only you know what you're talking about. You, and God.
Responses:

Alamir
What I’m going to term as “dream seeing,” since there is no term for this scientific study yet, should not be confused with reading dreams. D...
alishahnovin
I had a discussion with a friend recently. After having both returned from our holiday vacations, we immediately went into a discussion about films...

Alamir

Alamir

2008-12-29 03:50:21

Wouldn't it be more boring if those who believed in God never spoke about it in any way?

You don't really seem to define what you mean by "communicating" about a God. But if I'm to assume by that that you mean any communication at all then I disagree with that. There are good forms and bad forms of communication about God. If a mystic or religious person is going to push their idea of God on me when I'm not willing to discuss the issue, then that's a bad form of communication.

However, publishing a book or an article on one's own ideas of God can't be that bad. It can sit there on the bookshelf if the librarian chooses to have it. If I want to know what others think of God then I can read it. Theology isn't a bad thing and can have benefits such as satisfying the curiousity of others on such issues.

If someone says there must be "something" out there, that may just be a poor attempt at coming up with a concise definition for a God. Yet attempts at describing what that "something" is are still beneficial if for the sole sake of trying to explain or help someone understand what one thinks. What Einstein, arguably and atheist, said about God is interesting for many people. The discussion doesn't just show up in philsophy often but it also plays as a philosophy in itself. It obviously depends on the reader on whether that's interesting but I think it would be boring if people actually use your policy of "keep it to yourself."

God, being usually universal, omnipotent, and ethereal as he often is obviously the most difficult to describe. That's why he can easily be subjected to ridicule by ideas such as the flying spaghetti monster. But if people didn't give a description of that feeling of "something" out there and just held back on it since they can't quantify it then I think the world would end up being more boring.
REPLIES: Hogan

Hogan

Hogan

2008-12-29 16:56:10

Replying to Alamir:
Everything you say is right. I should have been more clear about my objection, which was a bout boring talk, either about God or dreams.

I'm all for interesting about God. I talk about religion to people all the time, and sometimes even dreams. I'm only against somebody privileging their own private conceptions as somehow inherently more interesting, just because it's personal. People who habitually start sentences with, "Well , I think that..."

Interesting discussions, for me, mean talking about everything except yourself, occasional personal anecdotes for illustration aside (and don't point out the "hypocrisy" of my denigrating the "Well I think" statement and then saying "Interesting discussions, for me"; perfect consistency is not what I'm going for. There a right and wrong way, I think, of using yourself in a discussion. I'm suggesting one's inner-most religious beliefs are some of the most personal and private, and therefore so removed from others that it's basically not worth mentioning, in normal circumstances, like most dreams).

When say, mystics, talk about God (the interesting ones, anyway), they don't talk about their personal conception of God in any detail, but they do talk about the process of introspection involved. I'm thinking of Elie Weisel in a book like Night, his Holocaust memoir, where he struggles with his faith during the genocide. The question of what God is exactly, given the horrendous circumstances, is only circled around. There is no asserted answer, and if he has one, Weisel keeps it to himself, because it's for him to figure out for himself, just as it is for everybody else. There's no point in telling anybody else what God is, because a mystic is supposed to wrestle with that question privately.

As for a Martin Luther King Jr, the closest he gets to describing God in his most famous, public addresses is to speak about, er, Him, as love and solidarity, which is the social aspect of God, not the private one. They connect, obviously, but they're quite distinct.

So, Alamir, we're in agreement, I think. Lots of talk about God is interesting and worthwhile. I read and talk about religion all the time. Love it. But it can be done right (interestingly) and wrong (boooring), just like anything else, I suppose. God and dreams just seem slightly more susceptible to being boring, probably because so much has been said about them that saying something original and interesting is difficult, and, also, the fact that so much has been said about it makes it easy for people just to echo what they've heard somewhere else, making what they say a pale copy of somebody else's ideas. Cliches and platitudes about God especially, get repeated daily.

I'm simply advocating saying something interesting. About whatever. And it's not simply a question of "What interesting to me might not be interesting to you." That's not an interesting comment.

Alamir

Alamir

2008-12-29 18:23:25

Have you ever read anything by Rumi? That's who I thought of while writing that. He covers mysticism like "who doesn't think about this stuff?" Though it is written in a poetic form, there's no confusing poetical devices to get in the way. It comes off as prose and he's almost making it clear as possible what he's talking about while trying to keep his approach poetic so that you're open to the idea that it's hard to be scientific about God.

ChawlieFresh

ChawlieFresh

2008-12-30 15:53:12

Life would be borring without dreams and without God's and religion. It would be a meaningless mess of lost souls.
REPLIES: Hogan

Hogan

Hogan

2008-12-30 15:59:17

Replying to ChawlieFresh:
I agree. But there's a boring and interesting way to go about talking about both. A fine line, yes, but it's there. I'm only against boringness, no matter what the subject matter.
REPLIES: Alamir

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